The Difference Between Knowing About God and Actually Knowing Him

There's a real difference between knowing about God and actually knowing Him. In this episode, we continue our Getting to Know God series by looking at why this pursuit isn't optional for the Christian life — and why, despite that, it's one of the most neglected things we do.

We talk about how what you believe about God shapes everything else: how you see yourself, how you treat others, and how you handle everything from minor inconveniences to real heartbreak. Along the way, we look at Job's response to devastating loss, Abraham's attempt to help God keep His promise, and Augustine's famous line about restless hearts. Dr. Shah also shares the story of his father climbing a Himalayan mountain to ask a guru whether he'd found the meaning of life — and the answer he got.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:39

As a Christian, you want to know God as well as possible, don't you? Well, guess what? There's a big difference between knowing about God and truly knowing him. Let's get to know together.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Coming up right now on the ClearView Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We're glad you're joining us here, especially if today's your first time. We want to say welcome, Dr. Shaw. Welcome to the studio. I'm ready to talk about God. Amen. Listen.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

I can't think of a better subject, right? I mean, of all the things we could talk about, might as well talk about God.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Amen. We want to hear from you guys, especially if today's your first time ever listening to the show. Go ahead and text today. That's T-O-D-A-Y to 252-429-6069. That's 4252-429-6069. And you can also click join the family. It's in the description of this podcast right there. It's going to send you to our mailing list, and you're going to get a letter from Dr. Shah every single week, as well as a free gift.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Dr. Shaw, I always enjoy the conversations that we have on the Clear Read Today Show. But this conversation that we began about knowing who God is and getting to know him more has been especially impactful. As we were talking the last time, I it almost struck me like, hey, let me introduce you to my dad. You really like him. He's a cool guy. He he does a lot, and I think you'll really enjoy getting to know him.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Yeah. You know, what we believe about God impacts directly what we believe about ourselves. And what we believe about ourselves directly impacts what we believe about others. And it's not just about belief, it's about action, it's about behavior. How I treat myself is based on how I see God. And how I see myself is going to impact how I treat others. So this is a very practical subject. It's not just ethereal, abstract. Let's just dig into the theology of ontology or something. You know, we're going to figure out God's natures, the communicable and the incommunicable attributes and all that. No, no, no. It's very practical. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Very practical. And it's a practical thing because people are practical people. And at the end of the day, if you're listening to this, it's because you have a true desire to get to know God better, right? Right. You want it to impact your life in some way.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Right. Well, we've talked about this on the show before, but everything that you believe about God impacts every other area of your life. If God is the foundation and he holds our being together, that's going to impact and inform the way that we treat people, the way that we work, the way that we play, the way that we rest. I mean, it it's the undergirding for the all the relationships that we have.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Even if you don't believe in God, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

What you think you don't believe. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

What you believe, and also what you don't believe, what you fail to believe.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Even if you don't believe there's a God, guess what? That opinion about God shapes how you see people. Yeah. It shapes how you see the world, your worldview, it shapes everything about you.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Well, think about Job and the Bible. I would say the oldest book, most scholars believe that. Job faced trauma of the most difficult kind as he lost not just his wealth, his livestock, his servants, but his family. And his response is the Lord gives, the Lord takes away. Why in the world would he say something like that? In fact, better question is how could he say that? Well, he could say that because he truly believed in the sovereignty of God. That no matter what Satan was doing, and I believe Job understood that. Job knew that this was not happening out of happenstance. I believe Job wrote the book of Job. So he knew something deeper, something more powerful, something in the spiritual realm. There was a battle going. And he said what he said because he knew that ultimately everything that was happening to him was was coming through the hands of God. Satan was not ultimately in charge, God was.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

How does that change our view of our day-to-day lives? The minor inconveniences to the major heartbreaks if we view God as in charge of everything.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Well, I mean, think about the problems that come. You have to then ask yourself the question was this just a fact of life, or was this just an obstacle to overcome? Fact of life, nothing can be done. It is what it is. Obstacle to overcome means by God's grace, by God's strength, we can overcome this. We'll be okay. So daily life, there's a lot of possibilities here. Once you know who God is, how powerful He is, how much He cares for us, all of that helps us live our daily lives. Something else. And I'm particularly focused on the mistakes they make or the sins they commit or the wrong paths they take. Think about Abraham. You know, God called him to leave his country, go to a land that I will show you, I will bless you through you. All the families of the earth shall be blessed. Those who bless you, I will bless. Those who curse you, I will curse you. I mean, incredible promise given. But somewhere along the line, he believed that that promise was only to him and not to his wife Sarah. And somehow they were both convinced that as long as he has a child, then it'll be fine. So he passes his sister off, uh his wife off as his sister. Now, in some ways, in technicality, she was his half-sister, but wait, she was so much more than that. But what he believed about about God now created two sons, Ishmael and then Isaac. You see, what you believe about God is impacting us to this day.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Right. He thought God was only was gonna work through him.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah. Yeah. And that God was limited in his plan and that he could not uh, in a sense, resurrect Sarah's womb.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

I gotta come to God's rescue to make sure this plan can be able to do it. Yeah, we gotta help God out things out. We gotta help God out. See, that makes Abraham a lot more. God helps those who help themselves. That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

I think Abraham did say that.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

You know, it's funny because a lot of us look at Abraham and go, Abraham, what's wrong with you? You know that's not God, but we do the same thing. We try to come to God's rescue.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

We try to cut, we try to make sure, like, okay, God's trying to do this, so I gotta act first.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Oh, or or in our prayers, instead of saying, God, would you answer this? We we add the little tagline. But even if you don't, yes, yeah. Well well it's your will. If it's your will. Yes, it was your will of saying, God, we left the back door open for you.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Just in case you want to preserve your reputation, Lord. Slip out, you can. Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Because you know what really I'm saying, God, is I really don't think you're gonna come through on this.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Yeah, yeah. Hey, hey friends, hey friends at home who are listening. God doesn't need you to preserve his reputation. Just in case you were unclear on that, God, the creator of the universe, doesn't need you to look out for his reputation. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

He said, What are the times when God doesn't answer? I prayed for a a jet plane that I I wanted a jet plane in my backyard by the end of the week. Well, then, then according to your will, his will, this is your will. That's right. Right. Has nothing to do with the will of the triune God. This is you wanting something that is absolutely ridiculous. So you didn't get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

And and it doesn't mean that God didn't answer, it just means the answer was no.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

That's right. The goal that we have, Dr. Shah, to get to know God better. It seems like when you when you've got your hands off the steering wheel, all right, well, what's the most obvious solution? Well, you read the Bible. And it is the most obvious solution that we don't do, that we don't implement. Like people say that, like, I want to get to not know God better. Well, are you in the Bible? I mean, well, I can. Yeah, I try. I can't. So I have a Bible. What I think about God is to me. He's to me, he's very loving. Like he he cares about me. He wants to see me do good.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

I think I've heard someone say that to you in a conversation. You were like, are you reading the Bible? Well, you to me, God is. I was like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah, that's that wasn't the question. You've got the answer manual. That was not the question that was asked. You've got the answer manual right there. You've got it in your face, what he's like. It's like, well, I mean, I know, but uh In my opinion, who has the time?

unknown 8:42

No, no.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Yeah. Our goal is to derive who God is, that information, from scripture, from the Word of God, from the Bible. That's our goal. So in this series, which may last, I don't know, a couple of months, sure, we're going to come back to scripture after scripture after scripture. Now, there are times we're gonna deal with just one scripture, but in this particular study, it'll be more like a systematic theology where we will bring scriptures from different parts of the Bible to bear on one doctrine at a time. And uh there may be like three episodes per doctrine, or maybe four, I don't know. It all depends on what we're covering and the questions that we get. But needless to say, this subject is essential for several reasons. I want to give some reasons that I did not get to do last episode. Number one, getting to know God is a needed pursuit. It needs to happen, it is not optional. I got saved. Is there a series on money management? Yes, there is, but your first responsibility should be to figure out who is the one who saved you. I got saved, and I I need to be set free from addiction, and I got so many problems, man. I uh you know, I have struggles I uh growing up and I had a rough upbringing, and I have addiction issues, and I have, you know, I'm going through marital problems, and I I need I need some information on how to raise my children. All that is great. But your primary goal should be I want to know the one who saved me.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Explain to us why that's important, Dr. Shah. Um, if I'm pursuing God, that's a good thing. Even if my motivation is a little bit selfish, I just want to fix these problems in my life. Why is the motivation behind getting to know God so critical for us?

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Well, number one, you know, Jeremiah tells us in Jeremiah chapter 9, verse 23, thus says the Lord. It means this is God Himself speaking. Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, nor let the mighty man glory gro glory in his might, nor let the rich man glory in his riches, but let him who glories glory in this that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, exercising loving kindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth, for in these I delight, says the Lord. So God is pleased when we get to know him. He is pleased. So you want to please God? Start wanting to know him. Who are you? How do you think? How do you see me? What do you want from me? What do you expect from me? What have you done from me and what do you want me to do for you? Now, of course, we there's nothing we can do for God other than what God is already enabling us to do. But those should be our questions because they put a smile on God's face when you say, Hey, I want to know you. I mean, think about it in your own personal lives. If somebody genuinely is your friend, genuinely, they want to know who you are. Like what do you like to eat, or what kind of movies you like, or what kind of music you like, or what's your favorite Bible verse? You know, those kind of things. Because why do you want to know that? What about a person who just sits there and talks about themselves? You're like, man, that person, he just went on and on and on and on about himself or herself. Yeah. But think about somebody you know, not in a creepy way, but genuinely is concerned with who you are. And okay, well, that's pretty amazing. So so you were born there and then you you then you do that, and then you love love painting. Okay, that's pretty cool. Or you love playing golf. Yeah. That's amazing. Or you like arts. Okay, so you know, or do you go to any shows? Uh or have you been in an in a in theater? You know, those kind of questions. You feel like, man, this person cares about me. Yeah. You feel safe around that person. You feel a sense of connection with them. So also God.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah, absolutely. You know, that's something that as as leaders and as pastors and as ministry people that should should be second nature to us, right? That we know our people. But a lot of times we get so caught up in the how of what we do, managing week to week to week that we forget to do that. At Clearview, that has become a big priority for us over the years is the getting to know our people, remembering their names, talking to them. And over time, it helps those people, just like you said, Dr. Shah, to trust you. So also with God. You know, we we're quick to do it, I think, with people because we're like, that's a priority. But with God, we're like, well, I've guessed I've got all the time in the world. God already knows me.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Well, even in a ministry setting, why is it a priority? Why is it a priority that we know our people? Well, because they these are people that God has gifted us to lead, to shepherd, to care for, and these are people who are created in the image of God. That's my brother in Christ, that's my sister in Christ. God created them uniquely, and I need to love them because God loves them. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

I mean, it's very practical. But unfortunately, getting to know God is a neglected pursuit, and it's because of our sin. One reason we don't seek God as much as we should is because the sin, a sin of selfishness or self-focusedness is so preeminent that we only think of our my needs, my wants, my pains, my hurts, my desire, my goals, my ambitions, my healing. I mean, it's all me. Right.

unknown 14:27

Dr.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Shaw, what are some things that we can do to battle or to counteract the self? I was gonna ask if this is a recent development, but then I thought about Cain and Abel, and then I was like, well, maybe not. Maybe it's not a recent development. What are some things we can do to fight self?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

I mean, scripture. Again, scripture, scripture, scripture, see what the Bible has to tell us about getting to know God. I'm gonna give it another scripture right here. This is coming from the book of Daniel, the wisest person in Persia. In Daniel chapter 11, verse 32, it says, Those who do wickedly against the covenant, he shall corrupt with flattery. But the people who know their God shall be strong and carry out great exploits. So why are things happening the way they are they're happening and people don't care to know about God? It's because of wickedness.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

You know, what what does that what does that say about us? Because you know, we're we're called to bring the light of Christ to all people. You know what I mean? And and I think there are people who don't know Christ who genuinely want to know God, right? I think that's where maybe, I mean, Dr. Shaw, you can maybe speak to this a little better. You grew up in the East where people are looking for God in all sorts of weird, mystic, weird weird ways. But even though they know they don't know Christ, there's this desire in them to get to know God. And it's sad because it's not possible. You can't, how can you get to know God apart from Christ?

SPEAKER_02 15:52

By looking inward or looking around you, or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

And so you've got all these people with false peace. And it's weird because I think a lot of us look at it and go, well, hey, if it works for them, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah. And that's not accurate because it's not it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Right. Right. I guess I guess what I'm saying is there's there's a desire in I think every single heart to get to know God. Yeah. And it's a desire that as Christians, we're called to take the light out there. And I think a lot of Christians are. A lot of churches are have have great, great missions-minded stuff.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

But it's not doing as as well as it could be. Yeah. I I you've made this point before, Dr. Shah, but people, you know, in looking at different religions around the world, Christianity is the only one where God comes to us. God seeks a relationship with us. Everything else is about humans getting to God.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Doing these sacrifices and these rituals and keeping these laws and whatever, whatever. But ultimately they fall short because those gods, little g, those gods are man-made. They're they're crafted so that we can fit God into a box. Well, the God that we worship, the God that we serve, doesn't fit into a box.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah. You talk about people searching God, you know, Augustine. Augustine was a was, you know, I don't even I won't even call him a pagan. I mean, he was just an unbeliever. I mean, he just lived the life. He he enjoyed life. He was in sexual immorality, drinking, and you name it. He was caught up in all those things. His mother was a believer who prayed for him and did everything she could to get Augustine to come back to God. And of course, in time, her prayers were answered, and Augustine gave his life to Christ. And it was amazing. His testimony is quite amazing. If you ever want to read a book that will that will deeply speak to you, is his collection of writings called The Confessions. And take some time to read it. It's quite amazing. It's like this is this somebody was writing this 1600 years ago. Wow. That's crazy. But one statement he made that I'm sure you have heard it in sermons or read it in books, he said, talking to God, he said, You have made us for yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in you. I've heard that. God has made us for himself, and our hearts are restless until they find their rest in him. And the rest that we find is the rest of knowing him and trusting him.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah. I think about like the people here in the West, you know, the people who are constantly searching for something deeper or some means of escape, especially people who drink, people who do drugs, people who do like hallucinogenics. Like a lot of people, they'll tell you this is just to feel good. It's not to feel good, it's to escape. But escape to where?

unknown 18:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

They know that there's something deeper than this life.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

The numbing or the distraction is what they're after than than dealing with their present reality.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Well, well, yes, but it's also like, it's also like it's I'm trying to escape from something, right? The all the pain of this world. But what we're not talking about is where are you trying to escape to? Yeah. There's a spiritual existence, there's a spiritual reality that you are searching for. And you may not be aware of it, but you don't just escape from somewhere. You're escaping to something. There's some there's something better, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Well, is is there something to that, Dr. Shah, that we all kind of have this innate sense of like there, there's gotta be something more or something better. Is there, is there, is that an evidence of anything within us? Something more or something better, like God out there, yeah. Or just that like this present life, uh, the these sufferings that I'm going through, there's gotta be something better on the other side. There's gotta be some reason behind it all.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

There's gotta be some depends on how the you know we learn the truth. Some people they have been taught the wrong truth or lie, I would say, but they they think this is all there is to it in this life. Yeah. Or in the life to come, they will just hopefully escape the coming back, the reincarnation, like it it is in Hinduism and certain brands of Hinduism. Or if they get on the other side, maybe they can become one with with the with this force, this divine, and just cease to exist. So a lot of people have a lot of wrong ideas about what's coming up. Yeah, but this is where getting to know God is important, it's critical. No matter how sincere you are in believing something that is wrong, you are still sincerely wrong.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

It's not just that you're sincere, so it'll be okay. No, you're sincerely wrong. Jesus tells us in his high priestly prayer, this is in John 17, that getting to know God is critical. It is it makes us human. Okay. It says in John 17, Jesus spoke these words, lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son, that your son may also glorify you. As you have given him authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him. And this is the eternal life that they may know you, yeah, the only true God in Jesus Christ whom you have sent. So salvation coming to Jesus so that you can be saved is the first step towards knowing God.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

I remember that story you told me about your dad going up in the mountains. You remember that he he saw all the monks and stuff? I remember that story when you told it to me. The the real humanity, and uh what made me think of it was you said the search makes us human. The humanity of looking for something different, looking for something beyond, right? There's there's got to be something in this great beyond. Yeah. And how different it looks, not only across generations, but just on different sides of the world. Like your dad going up into the do you want to just tell that story of the city? Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

So this is in that time period when my dad was searching for truth, and he began to go to different pilgrim sites and pilgrimages, I guess you can say. But he wasn't going as a pilgrim. He was going to he was going to those sites so he could ask the so-called masters and teachers and the gurus and the sadhus the questions of life that he was struggling with. Had he left Islam by this point or is he questioning? He's questioning. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But but I would say for all practice. He's checked out. Yeah, because he knows that Islam doesn't have the answers, it is full of contradictions, it is is just a hodgepodge of nothing. Right. So he he's already checked it off his list. Like I grew up this way. My family is this way. I will have tons of benefits if I stay this way. But I can't do this anymore. Because to do this is to lie to myself. So Islam, big X. Now he's going to other places like Buddhism. Other religions like Buddhism. And so he so he uh goes out. Still living at home? Uh still living at home, but as his kind of traveling. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

So he's doing all this searching kind of in secret until since the family had money, since they were educated and and knew how to travel, you know, this was sort of like, okay, you're going, where are you going? Well, I'm gonna go to this place. Oh, okay, have fun, be safe. Yeah, yeah. He goes to this one place which was on the top of a mountain in in the near the Himalayan mountains. I I don't think it was like a Mount Everest or anything, but it was it was one of those summits. And he he went up there. And pilgrims come from all over, and they will come and find some teacher, some sadhu, and they will sit by him, offer him some gifts, and offer him some some tributes or whatever. And he went to one and this one had taken the vow of silence. So what what does he do? He just sits there quietly. Not a word. It means I have mastered the desire to speak. Okay. People do all kinds of things. You know, in the West, we think, oh, we don't do that here. Well yeah, they do. There are th they're thrill seekers. They will they will do things recklessly. There are there are people who will drink themselves to no end. There are people who will do drugs, uh, leave their family, leave their loved ones, and be out on the streets. I mean, yes, there are people who are seeking that's that's just a form of seeking something that will help them escape uh the struggles of life. Yeah. To enter into a different realm. That's what they're doing. So yeah, people do that here as well. Or they'll work extremely hard to build some business or some vision they have of life. So people do those things. But in India, you can see it more starkly. When they do things, it's very right in your face. And again, not all Indians do that. There are people who do it. And and there are sadhus there, gurus there who will stand on one leg until the other one is shriveled up.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

I think I saw something about someone who like he raised his arm and just for like 30 something years.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah, and his arm is stuck up there and completely shriveled up, and that's it. Huh. He said, Well, what's with that? He's like, Can you do that? So my answer would be like, Do I want to? Why would I want to?

SPEAKER_01 25:54

I was like, I'm guessing your dad did not find anything of spiritual value with this guy.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Well, he went up there and and he he his disciples were sitting around him, and so my dad asked him, Have you found it? Have you found the meaning of life? And the disciples were like, Shh. The guru has taken a vow of silence, he will not answer you. And my dad's like, Well, what is this? Have you found the meaning of life? How would we know that you found the meaning of life? Now, he had also taken the vow to never cut his hair. Not my dad, but the guru. The guru, yeah, yeah. Not gonna cut his hair. And he hadn't cut his hair for decades. Wow. So it was like really matted, long, like dreadlocks. Yes, yes. I mean, like, but not clean. No, dirty. Really dirty, dirty. I mean, it's just and and so he called my dad over, like, come closer. And when my dad came closer, he reached back and he hit him with with his hair. Like whipped him in the face with his hair? Like, took it and just kind of threw it in his face. Because it was long hair. Yeah. Had just been kind of bunched up on his head. Wow. And he hit him, it kind of hit you like almost like a rock. Was he mad or is it supposed to mean something? No, he was a little bit mad at my dad for daring to question. Uh-huh. But his answer was, this is what I have. Wow. This is what I have.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Well, the whole point of being a guru, a teacher, is so that you can teach other people what you've learned.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Now leave India and the East and this craziness alone. In America, in the West. What what do you have? Well, look at my fancy house. Look at my car. Look at my car. Look at my boat. Look at my you know my my hobbies. Look at my collection. Look at how I can you know indulge in some some bad habit, or I can commit adultery and and I have so many women or so many men, whatever. Yeah. What's the difference? No difference at all. What they're saying is, look what I have achieved. That's right. And you look at that and go, that's it? Yeah. If you get to know God, you'll find out your true purpose for living.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

And if you don't know Jesus Christ, you can do that today. Dr. Shell, will you just lead a short prayer? Just tell this person who's listening, maybe it's the first time they've ever been on the show. How do I get to know Jesus? It's simple.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Pray with me. Dear Jesus, come into my life. I believe that you are God's Son who came to save us. You gave your life on the cross for us. I don't understand all that I need to know, but I know this much. I need to know God. So please, not only save me, but bring me to your Heavenly Father. In your name.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Amen. And if you prayed that prayer for the first time, we want to rejoice with you. That's right. We want to encourage you in your walk with God. Text in and let us know 252-429-6069. We'd love to hear from you here at the preview today's show and love to encourage you on your journey to getting to know God.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

That's right. And we're going to send you a free gift if you text for the very first time today. Or if you join the mailing list, you can do that by clicking on the link in the description. It says join the family in big all caps letters. Again, we want to celebrate with you guys. Thank you to everyone who's supporting the show financially, all of our monthly donors over on prey.com and abadonshaw.com. We're getting to know more and more of you. We're getting to know your stories through these email lists. So thank you for joining the family, and we can't wait to see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear Read Today.