How People in the Bible Saw a God No One Can See

If God is invisible, how did people in the Bible see Him? Scripture says two things that sound impossible to reconcile: "no one has seen God at any time," and yet "the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend." In this episode of Clearview Today, we work through how both can be true.

We start with what it means that God in His essence is unseeable — using the strange, heavy experience of standing at a casket to illustrate the difference between a body and the person who once filled it. From there we explore the visible manifestations of God throughout Scripture, the pre-incarnate appearances of Christ, and Stephen's vision of Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

Then we get to the harder question: if people once saw God, why won't He show Himself to us now? The answer runs in two directions. First, faith — the people who saw Him face to face still walked away, so seeing was never what produced belief. And second, God's holiness — to reveal Himself fully, in His inner essence, would not comfort us. It would destroy us. We close where the whole conversation lands: without faith, it is impossible to please God.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:39

In his essence, God is unseeable. But that doesn't mean he's unknowable, and it doesn't mean he's unapproachable.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Let's figure out how to approach God today on the Clearview Today show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, a daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today studio here with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah. Dr. Shah, it's gonna be a good show.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

It's gonna be a great show, and we're going to see God.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

That's what everybody has been asking for. That just I want to see God.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

You know it's funny, but someone someone just heard that and they're like, What?

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Like, he's a guest on the show. You know what's funny because we think that, and we and we even say stuff like that in times of like distress, or it would be like, it would be really great if he would just appear and just tell me what to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Just light a bush on fire and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

And I promise you, I would do it. If he if if he treated me like Moses or like John, where he just appeared and told me what to do, Lord, I would do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Well, the Bible gives us two different things about this this issue. On one hand, John 1.18 tells us no one has seen God at any time. But on the other hand, Exodus 33.11 tells us that Lord spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend. Oh now, how in the world do you reconcile those?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah, that's not just God speaking to Moses. That's pretty explicit language about there being some sort of visual interaction face to face. I mean, that that's I can we can see each other.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

Yeah, not only did they meet once, they spoke as friends. They had an intimate connective relationship. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Well, two points come out of this. The first one is this God in his essence, his inmost personality is unseeable. God in his essence, his inmost personality is unseeable. Is unseeable. Now, we're gonna look at some scriptures here because the Bible is our guide. Before we run to philosophy or some theology books, uh, let's begin with scripture. And as long as those theology books are based upon the word of God, I'm fine with it. Right. As long as those philosophy books are coming from scripture, great. But if not, we're going to stick to scripture. So here are some references. First one is 1 Timothy chapter 1, verse 17, where Paul says, Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. But what I want to focus on is how he describes God. He is invisible. Again in 1 Timothy chapter 6, 16, who alone has immortality dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. So it's not even that no man's ever seen him. You can't see him. You cannot see him. So you can see me. Right?

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yes and no.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

Do you mean like yeah, hold on, because you did have some schmutz. I was gonna say, even just for the episode, you got some schmo. Oh, wait, that's my that's my glasses.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Well, think about going to a funeral. You know, we went to a friend's father's funeral, went to the visitation. Well, the body wasn't there, but but there was a cremation, there was a you know, the urn that was there. How many times have you walked up to a casket and looked at a person and had to convince yourself, yes, that is really him or her? It is no way like a living, breathing person. It does not even look like the same person.

SPEAKER_04 4:23

There's a disc there is a disconnect, there's a huge disconnect, an emotional disconnect. I remember one time there with you, you and I went to a funeral home together, and you, I think you walked into another Oh no, no, no, I had gotten there first, and I was waiting for you to arrive, and they said, Are you here to see Buddy or something? And I was like, Yeah. And they led me to the wrong room, and they said, Cool, uh, Dr. Shell will be here shortly. We'll go over all the details. They left. I was just in a room with this corpse that I did not know, and it turned out to be the wrong person. Right. But I've never in my life felt air that was heavier. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it felt wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Because it was not the you know, because the person is not there. Right. Yeah. Right? The the body is there, and I'm not saying the body is not the person, but you need both the spirit and the body to make up that person. You need both the material and the immaterial to make up that person. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5 1, for we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. So when Jesus returns, my body will be raised from the grave and will be transformed. But listen to 2 Corinthians 5 2, for in this we groan earnestly, desiring to be clothed with our habitation, which is from heaven. Again, it is not just another habitation, it's a much better one. Okay. So who are you? Who am I? I am a person, someone who knows, someone who feels, someone who wills. You can put this body in a science lab, but I challenge you to put me in a science lab.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

It is impossible. Yeah, you can take my hand or my heart or my kidneys and examine it. But you really won't be getting me. There's something more to me than just this tent.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

That's deep, but anyone who has ever lost a loved one or even just attended a funeral or a service, you've experienced that. You know when you're looking at that person, yes, that is their body. Yes, I can visually recognize these are the features that that I recognize in that person. But it's not him. It's not it's not him. There's something missing.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

There's an immaterial, yeah. There's an immaterial sense to every person that we take for granted until it's not there. Until it's not there. And then you know because it feels wrong.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Right. This feels weird. That's right. So so we need flesh and blood to exist, to interact, to communicate, and all the rest. God doesn't need flesh and blood, but that does not mean he doesn't exist. Okay. He he does. In our inmost personality, we are unseeable by others. In our inmost personalities, we are unseeable. Now you can see me on the face, you can see my verbal and nonverbal cues, but in my inmost personality, yeah, you cannot really see me. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 7:27

Even your like, even something as simple as your thoughts, you know, your thoughts, your ideas, your worldviews, I can't see those things. I can hear about them from you and I can learn them over time, but I can't see them. Yeah, you how how? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

And it's not possible. Yeah. So also is God in his essence, his inmost personality is unseeable. Like a little boy was coming home from Sunday school and was taking his own sweet time. He scuffed his shoes into the grass, he found a caterpillar, he found a fluffy little milkweed pot, and he blew at it all the all those uh fillers. A bird's nest on the tree uh overhead, you know, so wisely placed and high was just another wonder that caught his his his little eye. A neighbor watched his zigzag course and hailed him from the lawn, uh, asked him where he had been on that day and what was going on. Oh, I've been to Sunday school. His response, I've been to Sunday school. And and you know, he he carefully turned aside and found a snail underneath, and he said, I've learned a lot about God. And the neighbor said, That's a that's a very fine way for a boy to spend his time. If you'll tell me where God is, I'll give you a brand new dime, says the neighbor. Quick as a flash, he responded, I'll give you a dollar, mister, if you tell me where God ain't. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. So, in a sense, yes, you cannot see him, and yet, in a sense, he is there. So I agree with John 1.18. No one has seen God at any time, and yet God still has a form in which he shows himself in the heavenly world and is seen.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

Talk to us a little bit about that form, because I think you know, most people who are listening to this, if you're a Christian, you agree that Jesus came, he was here physically. And maybe there's maybe there's a different form that you're referring to, but this is the most I get I guess I would venture to say this is the most obvious form that God took was the person of Jesus. Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

And we're gonna come to that. Yeah. But there's some other examples, again, coming from scripture, scripture, scripture. Right. First one is at Jesus' baptism. We hear John 132, and John bore witness saying, I saw the spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and he remained upon him. Now we picture a bird sort of, you know, flapping his wings and then perching on top of Jesus' shoulders. It was not a bird, it was descending from heaven like a dove.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

That was the manner in which it was descending, not the form.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Not not the form. It wasn't like a bird came down from heaven. Yeah. It was the spirit. It was a spirit, but the way he came down, I mean, what an awful moment, like AWE, awful moment. Yeah. To see the third person of the Godhead coming and, in a sense, anointing the second person of the Godhead for what he was about to now embark upon. But they saw a form. I mean, that's amazing to me. That is.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

That is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah, when you think about, I mean, the the Holy Spirit of God, when you think about someone who, you know, identifiably is invisible, taking on a physical form that can be seen, of something that's visible to people's eyes. Yeah. That's that's incredible that God, God reveals himself in ways that we can process and yet still is an invisible God.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

And I think people even make that mistake. Like, I've seen the Holy Spirit so many times, like just portrayed as a dove. And people say, Well, then that maybe he took the form of a dove. It doesn't say that. It doesn't say that.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

No, it was not like he he he picked a dove flying around and just said, Oh, now I'm gonna use you to think he possesses a dove or something. No, no, no, no. This was just like a the way a dove would perch. Uh, the the Holy Spirit, just this presence and it was very real. John saw, others saw, and they knew, what is that? Yeah, what is that? What's happening? And the best way he could describe was was like like a a bird coming to land.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

You mentioned in the Old Testament, too, that there was a lot of times where God revealed himself. Yes like to Moses. I'm I'm assuming it's not the same form, or maybe something similar.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Something different because in Exodus 24, verse 9 through 11, this time to the leaders of Israel, it says, Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abahu, and 70 of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel. Whoa, wait a minute. There it is. What?

SPEAKER_04 12:05

What? I thought no one had ever seen God.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I thought God was unseeable. And there was under his feet, as it were, a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. Wow. This is Exodus 24.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Sounds like revelation.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah, I mean, this is huge. But on the nobles of the children of Israel, he did not lay his hands. So they saw God and they ate and drank. They had dinner with him. Yeah. Wow. That's insane.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Seeing the invisible God. He's sitting there on a throne.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

I mean, there are some times like when you do radio where like you feel like you just always gotta keep talking, but then there's sometimes you read something like that and you just have to be like, wow, you just gotta be quiet. Was that in the Bible?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Is that the Mormon book? I mean, what is this? What where no, it's in your Bible. That's right. It's in Exodus 24.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

So leaders, the leaders of Israel seeing the God of Israel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

Means Moses saw is Moses saw God a number. More than once. Yeah. Yeah, more than once.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

And they sat down and ate with him. I mean, isn't that what it says? That's what it says. So they saw God and they ate and drank. Wow. They had dinner with him. Yeah. That's crazy to me. That is. And then, of course, we know the Moses episode where in Exodus 33 and verse 18 it says, and he said, Please show me your glory. Then he said, Now this is Exodus 33, so that was about maybe you know nine chapters after this very interesting encounter with God, where he invites them for dinner. What do they eat? I don't know. Yeah, that's a good question. But this time it's Moses himself. He said, Please show me your glory. Then he said, I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. Now, this is God saying about God. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. But he said, You cannot see my face, for no man shall see me and live. And the Lord said, Here is a place by me, and you shall stand on the rock. So it shall be, while my glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with my hand while I pass by. Then I will take my hand away, and you will see my back, but my face shall not be seen. Now, how in the world does it say that there? But at the same time, earlier in Exodus 33, 11, so the Lord spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend. How how is that possible? Right. You know, but but there's something that is happening there.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

There's a spiritual truth beyond the apparent contradiction.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah, how do we how do we understand that? That you know, if there's a conversation that happens face to face, but in this instance, Moses can't look upon God or God says he shouldn't look upon him, so God covers him and and he's allowed to look at God from behind, from the back.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

A great illustration is you know, we have uh these handheld mirrors that allow us to check our you know uh the back of our head to see, you know, okay, is any hair standing up, or have I, you know, I need to comb back here a little bit better. So if you ask me, have you seen the back of your head? No. Yes, I have.

SPEAKER_04 15:34

That makes sense. Yeah, you stand like you stand behind a mirror. You stand in front of a mirror and then have another mirror to look at the back of your head. So you've seen it. But you really haven't. But I but I can't really. Yeah, I can't see it. I need something else to to kind of help me see it.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

And I think that's what's happening here. So it's when people say the Bible has contradictions. No, you you are just you you haven't been exposed to how properly study and understand and explain the Bible. It does make sense, doesn't it? Have you seen the back of your head? No. But yes, but I have. But no, I haven't. But you yes, you have.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

But I have.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, same thing's happening here.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

So also with God, people some people have they have seen God, but they have not seen him, seen him.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah. So yes, so in a sense, they did have a conversation face to face, but at the same time, no, he did not see God. So just the way that we can do this here, so also is happening here. But do you Moses?

SPEAKER_04 16:30

This may not really matter in the grand scheme of things, but do you think that when he comes down and he places Moses in the cleft of the rock, do you think this is God the Father? Do you think it's the Son?

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Uh I believe it's more Jesus. Jesus, the Son of God. Gotcha. The second person of the Godhead, because he is the one, you know, John talks about that, and maybe we'll read that passage in a little bit. And no one has seen God at any time. The only begotten son, he has revealed himself. You know, the one who has proceeded from the Father, he's the one who has revealed himself to us.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

So when God reveals himself in the Old Testament, whether it's the angel of the Lord or through his son, it's through his son Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Well, a great point for us to transition into, because the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, that's another visible manifestation. You know, so so some people have seen God, his visible manifestation, but they have never seen God in his essence. So he saw God's back, so he did not see his essence, but he did see the visible manifestation, where like in a mirror, you look back and say, Oh, I can see the back of my head.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

So you think it's fair to say that when the Bible says no one has ever seen God, what it's saying is no one has ever seen the true essence of God.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Right. How can you? You won't survive. Isn't that what it says? Isn't that what God told Moses? Yeah. No one can see my true essence and live.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

No, I don't know. There may there may be someone out there who would say, Oh, come on, you're playing verbal gymnastics. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Your choice. Well, I think you said it best that we're following what scripture says. Right. I mean, we can't talk about the nature of God without being firmly rooted in scripture. Otherwise, it's speculation. It's, you know, the sort of pointless philosophy. We've got to have it rooted in the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

And the thing is, the people who wrote it, like Moses, he wrote Exodus. Did he not see that there was an apparent contradiction between verse 11 and verse 18? Where verse 11, it talks about talking to God as a friend face to face, and then verse 18, like no one can see God. I can put you in the cleft of the rock and uncover you and remove my hand. You're gonna see my back, but not my face. Moses could not go away. I gotta fix this thing right here. Oh man, I wrote that wrong there. Yeah, because what I'm saying in 11 doesn't match what I'm saying in verse 28.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

I imagine Moses going into somebody who's like, see the Bible has contradictions just like on the back of the head, like, don't you think I wrote this? I know, I know what I meant.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

And then all of uh God's people throughout the ages, they could have easily resolved this. Yeah, they don't. Because they got it. So when you come along in the 21st century and you say, Oh, this doesn't, this is contradictions, don't you think they would have figured it out? Yeah. Yep. What if the contradiction is really in your mind because of the lack of understanding, not in them?

SPEAKER_03 19:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Because they would have resolved this very easily. So also the angel of the Lord, you know, to Hagar in the wilderness, to Joshua, and then you know, you find him again and again in the book of Judges, Abraham before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. I mean, this is all the angel of the Lord, the visible manifestation of God, but in his deep essence, you can see him, especially referring to the second person of the Godhead, Jesus. Another very important verse, you know, you find in Isaiah 9, verse 6 run to us, a child is born unto us, a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called wonderful, counselor, mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father. Did you know that the second person of the Godhead was also known as everlasting Father?

SPEAKER_04 20:06

Yeah, that's very powerful. This is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yes. Yes. In Philippians chapter 2, verse 5, let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God.

SPEAKER_04 20:19

He's got God's form, he's got human form, but he's also God's form. Yeah. And those two, you know, I I know I don't know how many Christians think this, but I'm sure there's tons of people who think, again, that there's contradiction there. We can't be a hundred percent this and a hundred percent that. But we're dealing with a being that is in a way beyond our comprehension. Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

And if those early believers, or even the Hebrews or the people of Israel, or the Jewish people, they read it. Why didn't they like go, oh my goodness, I'm embarrassed. That's in our word. We gotta fix this. Yeah. All right, come on, you know, Levi over there, go fix this. Why didn't they do that? Because they didn't think that was it wasn't it wasn't a problem for us. It was a problem for them. Yeah. And then in heaven, we hear this right here in Acts chapter 7, talking about Stephen, the first martyr. He says that he being full of the Holy Spirit gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. Wait a minute. He saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God? What did it look like? Yeah. Wouldn't you want to know?

SPEAKER_04 21:24

What happens when I want to know? Yeah. What happens if we if we circle back to the beginning where it's like, you know, the the invisibility of God, I get it. I get it. All these people, they saw Jesus. I want to see him. I want that assurance. Dr. Shah, how do you address the people who are listening to this right now who who just, even if they won't frame it this way, they just have a problem with God being invisible?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Well, if they won't well, we will see the visible manifestation. We the old testament believers saw that, the new testament saw it, and personally, I mean in in the incarnation of Jesus, they saw that like like really personally. You say, Well, yeah, but why not now? Well, God has chosen not to. And one reason is that if God has to keep coming back and showing himself to you, then what happens to faith? That's a great point. That's a great point. Where are you gonna step up and believe? Well, but about them, how about those people? Well, those people also had some other struggles. Yeah, right. Even seeing Jesus face to face touching him, they still didn't believe. Yeah. Right. They still had to have faith. Yeah. So don't ever think that man, they had the advantage, I am at disadvantage. No. They saw him face to face and still rejected him. They had what you're asking for and they still turned away from it. Right. And Thomas is like, I have to touch it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Yeah, even one of the disciples. Even one of the, I was about to say, like, imagine all.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

I mean, think about walking around with Jesus. Judas was right there.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There were, there's, I'm sure there were hundreds, if not thousands, of people who were fed by Jesus, who were there when he fed the 5,000, who were like, Man, I just watched Jesus do incredible things, but I don't know. He wants me to follow him. I don't think I can do that.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Jesus even said, you know, blessed are you who see you who see me and believe. Blessed are those who have not seen and so believe.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Yeah. He said that to uh Thomas. Yeah. Well, one thing we need to remember, other than that, other than the faith element, for God to reveal Himself in His inner essence would be annihilation. I'm not talking about the doctrine of annihilationism, which is like in the end times or in the eternal world, God will just annihilate the unbelievers into God. We're not talking about that. Hear annihilation in the sense of total destruction or complete obliteration of anybody who comes in contact with God. You cannot survive. God said that because when Moses said, Hey, I want to see your glory, he said, No one can see my glory and live. I mean it goes back to asking for my inner essence.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

Yeah, it goes back to our earlier conversation on holiness. You know, we just had if you if you're listening for the very first time today, we did a few episodes, maybe like three or four episodes back. We we covered this topic of God's holiness. Yeah. You know, you can't you can't stand in the presence of God's manner. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah. So well, somebody may say, Well, how about just the visible manifestation? Just I'll I'll take that. I don't need the inner essence, just invisible manifestation. I hear you. But number one, faith. Right? They still had to believe, and many didn't believe back then. That's right. Having seen the visible manifestation, there is no guarantee that God were to show it to you that you would actually believe. Right. You may end up worshiping something else. Yeah. So God has chosen not to.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

We we like to think that we're different. We love to think that we're different. Not me. I wouldn't do that. Those of my, but not me. Those silly Israelites, they had a pillar of cloud and a fire, and they still worship a golden guy. I wouldn't. I that would be enough for me. It's like, no, you won't.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

If if it took them 40 years, it would have taken you four minutes to do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yeah. Well, and I mean, think about the the people, God's people throughout the years. It usually just takes one generation flip to completely swing the opposite direction toward idolatry or toward disobedience to God. You've got one generation that sees God and his powerful miracles and taking them out of Egypt and out of slavery, and the next generation is being disobedient and not driving.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

Oh, yeah. If the modern exodus, if the exodus story took place in modern day America, that first day where manna came on the ground and he said you can't save none, yeah, we'd be done.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

I mean, if Peter denied Jesus three times that night, uh-huh, ours would be probably like 30 times. Yeah. Yeah. Every every hour on the hour. We beat on called.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

We beat uncalled the guards over. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Y'all hear that rooster crowd? No, I'm not worried about that right now. Let me tell you why I don't know Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Put him on social media with a big red arrow.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Can I use the whip on him to prove myself that I was not with him? Would that help you? I mean, you know, we we think we are so much better. Yeah. That's right. Oh my. No, no, no, no. No. We are just as sinful and unbelieving.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

That's right. Dr. Shaw, the people who are listening to the show as we close out today, who who want that who desperately are clinging to that proof. I I I want to see. I want to see God. I want to see a visible manifestation. I want to see some sign of God in my day-to-day life. I feel like I'm I'm asking and pleading and begging and trusting, but I'm not seeing what I want. What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Faith, faith, faith. Without faith, it is impossible to please God. For he who comes to God must believe that he is, and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him. Hebrews 11, 6. So it's by faith. It's by faith. You have to believe that God is. Is it wrong to desire to see God? No. But you see him through truth. You see him through the eyes of faith. And then to say, Yeah, that's great, but what if I really now then there is a problem in you at that point. You say, Well, that's a cop-out. Okay, you can believe what you want to. But we know what scripture tells us that we are to believe in spite of what we see. You know, Peter tells us 1 Peter chapter 2, verse 9, but you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, his own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. You say, Where's the light? Where's the light? I don't see any light. I'll run right to it. Just show it to me. Show me the light, I'll run to it. No, the light is real. And the darkness was just as real. That's right. When you received Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you left that darkness, that evil, and now you're walking in the marvelous marvelous light. And yet there are times that that darkness may come. Yes, there are times that that you feel like, man, I I I feel I'm I'm back into the old world. But you're not. By faith, you believe that God is with you and He will override whatever negative or unspiritual or unchrist-like struggle that you have from the visible physical world. You don't have to live in that.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Amen. Such a great encouragement for us as we end today's episode. If you've benefited from today's episode, you can help others do the same by visiting Abadanshad.com forward slash give. Every gift that you give goes to helping get this show on the radio, on the airwaves, and help it be make a difference in someone's life just like you.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

That's right. And if you're still listening to the show, I think we forgot to say this in the opening, but we want you to text us, 252-429-6069. If it's your first time ever texting that number, you're going to text the word today, T-O-D-A-Y. And then after that, you can text as much as you want. You can let us know questions you might have for Dr. Shah. Maybe a testimony, maybe how God is working in your life and in your ministry, maybe how the show is helping you to do that. We want to hear from you. We want to shout you out. We want to make uh make sure that you're staying connected with us. There's also a link in the description called Join the Family. You're just gonna click that link, it's gonna add you to our mailing list. We're gonna send you a free gift, and you'll be able to see what God is doing in this ministry, but through this ministry, how He's impacting your life and your church.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Cleet Today.