What All-Powerful Actually Means — and What It Doesn't

Life is unpredictable, and that unpredictability can leave us feeling completely powerless. But we serve a God who is all-powerful. In this episode of Clearview Today, we continue our Getting to Know God series by exploring the omnipotence of God — and the harder question underneath it: if God is all-powerful, why doesn't He always step in?

We work through what omnipotence actually means — that God is able to do all He wills to do — and why the things people raise as "limits," like the fact that God cannot lie or sin, actually strengthen His power rather than weaken it. We talk through the classic "can God make a rock too heavy to lift" puzzle, why God owns logic rather than being bound by it, and why so many of our questions about His power are really questions about His wisdom, justice, and mercy. And through the illustration of a father who lets his child receive a painful shot because it's for their good, we get honest about why an all-powerful God sometimes allows pain.

The heart of the episode is Jeremiah 32, where God tells the prophet to buy a field in his hometown just as the Babylonian army breaks through the gates — the worst possible time to buy land. It looks like defeat. But God's power isn't shown by driving Babylon away; it's shown in the promise that one day He would bring His people back. Obedience in the face of what looks hopeless is exactly where God's omnipotence shines.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Life is so unpredictable and it makes me feel completely powerless. But guess what? You serve a God who is all powerful.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Let's explore that in today's episode of Clearview Today. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today studio. We're so glad you're tuning in for another great conversation as we are getting to know God. And if you're listening for the very first time today, we want you to text in 252-429-6069. You're going to text the word today, T-O-D-A-Y, if it's your very first time. Or if you've been texting the show, just let us know some things that you'd like to hear us talk about, some questions maybe you have for Dr. Shaw or a testimony of what God is doing in your life. Dr.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Shaw, the Clearview Today Show is a daily radio show.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

We're on Monday through Friday on Truth Network, on prey.com. You can find us on a podcasting platform, lots local radio, lots of ways to listen. YouTube. Which becomes which becomes a predictable part of people's day. They can they can kind of plan their lives around listening to the episodes of Clearview Today. That's right. But life, often, other than your favorite podcast or radio show, life can be unpredictable at times.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

It is. It is. Life is unpredictable. You can understand life. And somebody put this together, life explained to you in two minutes. Two okay. Two minutes. Two minutes. So would you like to know? Yes, please.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

I think I got two minutes to go to scale this.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Well, the way it begins is that God created the dog and said, sit all day by the door of your house and bark at anyone who comes in or walks past. For this, I'll give you a span of twenty years. The dog said, That's a lot of time to be barking. How about only 10 years? And I'll give you back the other ten. God agreed. God created a monkey and said, Entertain people, do tricks, make them laugh. For this, I'll give you again a lifespan of 20 years. And the monkey's like, you know, monkey tricks for 20 years. That's a pretty long time to perform. How about you give me just 10 and I'll give you 10 back, just like the dog did? And God agreed. Next, God created the cow, and God said, You must go into the field with the farmer all day long, suffer under the sun, have calves, give milk to support the farmer's family, all the rest. For this I will give you a lifespan of 60 years. And the cow was like, That's a tough life. For 60 years, how about 20? And I'll give you the 40 back. And God agreed. And then God created man and said, I want you to eat, sleep, play, marry, enjoy your life. For this, I'll give you a lifespan of 20 years. And the man's like, only 20 years? Could you possibly give me my 20? Then give me the 40 the cow gave back to you. And then give me the 10 the monkey gave back. And the dog also gave you back 10. Can I have those as well? And that would make me about 80. 80 sounds good. Yeah, yeah. And God's like, okay, you asked for it. And so that's why for the first 20 years we eat, sleep, play, and enjoy ourselves. For the next 40 years, we slave under the sun to support our family. For the next 10 years, we do monkey tricks to support, not support, to entertain. To entertain. Maybe even support the grandchildren.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, dependent.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

And for the last 10 years, we sit on the front porch and bark at everyone.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Rest in peace, Papa.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

That was him.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

That was him. Barking on the front porch. Barking on the front porch. Do not step on Papa's lump. Yep. That was he was a bulldog of a member. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

I'm pleased. Yeah, life is unpredictable. You know, if you think about it, it it and this is why we need God. That's right. This is why we need Jesus. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

You know, it's funny because we've been talking about, you know, the things that you know about God matter, right? And I think it's in those moments where life is really unpredictable that it matters most. Because if I truly don't know if I can trust God or not, when disaster hits, I mean it's going to break me apart.

SPEAKER_04 4:54

Yeah, yeah. I mean, my the rug's gonna be yanked out from under you. You feel like you're just hanging in in chaos. You don't know what's coming next. If you don't, if you don't have God to lean on, I mean, I don't know how people make it through.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

And it's a couple of seasons of the thing. Especially Christians, because it's a tough thing to convince yourself that I really don't trust God the way I should, because I know I'm supposed to. I know that people have been saying that to me all my life.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

And so, you know, it's one thing for the lost world, but even for Christians to have to come to that place where it's like, I know I'm supposed to, but I don't trust God.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

And now my life has been completely turned upside down and I have no clue where to go.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

You know, a few seconds ago, Ryan, when you said, I don't know how people make it without God, I heard someone say this years ago. They said, Who said they're making it?

SPEAKER_04 5:35

Yeah. That's a great point.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah, they they may not be making it. Yeah. I would say, in fact, with a lot of confidence that they're not making it. Just because they put on, they smile, they have fun, they go vac on a vacation and they buy things and or they don't, or they save money, does not mean that life is great. That's right. What you see on the surface is not really what is happening behind closed doors. And so life can be unpredictable. But in those moments, we have to remember that God is in control. In fact, God is all powerful. God is completely in control, He has infinite power. There's nothing that you that God says, okay, that's outside my bounds. Yeah. Oh man, that's above my pay grade. Have you heard people say that? That's above my pay grade. There's nothing, nothing in the universe. I'm not just talking about on planet Earth or in my little circle of influence or impact. In the entire universe, there's nothing there. That's right. In fact, the entire universe put together is not too much for God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:52

God being all-powerful is something that I feel like a lot of people maybe hang on to, but they don't really understand what that means and really the scope of what that means. There's there's nothing that is outside of God's capability.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

And this is a really tough topic because on the surface it's, hey, God can do anything. But then there that comes with implications. Well, he could eradicate evil from my life, he could eradicate all of my struggles. He's all powerful. So why doesn't he do those things? And I think one of the things, Dr. Shaw, maybe we can talk about, uh, maybe this is a multi-part episode, I don't know. But is that what are the implications of God being all-powerful? Why aren't I seeing miracles in my life? Why aren't I seeing all the things that, you know, that people saw God's power in the Old Testament? Why am I not seeing those things? And we've talked about that a little bit on the show, how even if we did see those things, it really wouldn't make that big of a difference in our faith.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

Well, it didn't make people in the Bible, right? I mean, people in the Bible saw miraculous things like being led around in the wilderness by a pillar of cloud and a pillar of fire. They saw God's presence resting on Mount Sinai, they saw waters parted and walked through on dry ground, and yet they still doubted God and still doubted his power. But I'm different though.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

But I'm different though. If God, and seriously, I've I've I've told this to myself, if God would just appear to me in my room and talk to me for five minutes, tell me what I'm supposed to be doing in my life, I would listen and I would do it, and I'd obey, and I'd never doubt. And it's just absolutely not the case.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

You know, there are a lot of different attributes that are overlapping in a question like that. A question like if bad things are happening, this is happening, that uh we are we are sort of in a sense saying if God is all powerful, but there's more to it. Is God all wise? Is God all merciful? Is God all just? All those things are also overlapping in that question. So I think in this context, it's not as much about is God all powerful? Then why does he does he not stop all evil? Because there we're talking more about the righteousness of God or the mercy of God or uh you know, the love of God and and stepping in into our world and stopping something evil that is going on. Is he not more powerful than that abuser? Is he not more powerful than a dictator? Is he not more powerful than a terrorist who just killed hundreds of people or or five people or who however many? Why did he not stop them? You know, so when we talk about the omnipotence of God, what we're saying is that God is able to do all that he wills to do. This is not really bringing up things that have to do with morality and ethics or those softer virtues of God. We're talking here really about if he is able to do all that he wills to do, because to be unable to do what one does not will to do is not weakness for power, for power is the ability to do one's will. So to say, man, I don't know if God is all powerful, because there I saw this poor child being hurt, and then why didn't God do it? Is he not all-powerful? But there are other factors that are operating, like free will, like God allowing Satan to do his dirty deed, God working all things together for good, God using every circumstance to draw people to Christ. There are other things operating, and it's not just that. Is he not strong enough? Is he not strong enough? Like like your son, he got some shots. Yeah, he got some shots. Okay, how many did he get? Five. Five shots. Yeah, rough time. Five five times someone took this needle and and pierced your little boy. Yeah. Were you not powerful enough to stop it? Oh, of course. Yeah. Why didn't you do that?

SPEAKER_02 10:56

He's probably asking that same question right now.

unknown 10:59

Daddy, why?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Because I knew it was for his good.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Yeah. I mean, you see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah. You're powerful enough to push out that nurse or doctor or whoever was doing that and say, stop hurting my child. Yeah. But you're like, you know, in this situation, that pain is for something better, for something good. He needs that because it's gonna help him. And for me to stop this because I'm all powerful or stronger than that nurse or that doctor, it's not what's needed here. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 11:29

That's a great clarification, at least in my mind. God is powerful enough, God is powerful enough to do what he wills. God is God, there's nothing that God wills to do that he cannot do. And I've heard people say things mistakenly, but I've heard people say things like, Can God make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it? Or can God lie? Or things like that. How does that factor into this discussion?

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Again, I think it goes along with the same things that I just mentioned. You know, there are certain attributes that are operating there. Like, like in that situation, it's like logically, yeah. God operates by logic, he's not bound by logic, he is the source of logic. Where do you think reason and logic comes from? They they come from God. So to say that you know, I don't even know what what I can do to explain that, but let's say if I were to to build this table right here, okay, this table is is is I'm trying to think think cleverly here. This table is supposed to sit like this and hold up this mug, this coffee mug. And the way I have built it is perfectly able to support this this coffee mug. But then if someone were to come and say, well, you know this this mug is too heavy for this kind of table. Well, okay, I mean what do you want me to do? Tear you know, I I built this. I built the the table to hold this mug. And for you to say that it's the same way with God. You're you're telling God this this logic right here, how can you answer God says I made the logic, I made this table. And let's say I also made this coffee mug, and it's perfect, there's no problem with this. And it's my table and my mug, and I can put it on there. And everything functions the way it's supposed to. Yeah, because I made it, right? And I made this and it's working. Yeah. And for you to say, it doesn't work, how does this justify something? You know, and it's like, yeah, yeah, it's mine, I did it, yeah, and it works. So also with logic, when people use that, can God make a boulder so big that he can't lift it? That's illogical. That's a logical fallacy. God is a God of logic. Not that he's bound by I'm not bound by this table, I'm not bound by this mug. Beyond that. Right. So also God is beyond that logic. That's right. He owns logic, he created logic. He gave it to us. Now we're turning it around on him.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

I created the neurons in your brain that are firing incorrectly, so you can use this logic wrongly.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

There you go. That's perfectly said. It's also, I think, it's a trap, and maybe you could talk to this other shot. We don't have to get into logical fallacies today, but like when people say that, well, there are things God can't do. Well, God can't lie, so he's he's weak in that aspect. That's us, that's not a weakness at all. Like the things that God can't do, God can't lack, God can't sin, those actually strengthen his omnipotence. He's so beyond temptation, he's so beyond sin. It actually strengthens the the argument, at least as far as I can tell, for God's all-powerful nature.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Well, sin in its nature, and this is again, this may be a larger discussion, but sin in its nature is a failure. Yeah. It's a it's a capital. It's a coming short of a standard of perfection. God is the standard of perfection, so he's not going to be less than, he's not gonna fall short of his own standard.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Like when I say that I can't do something, I can't lift this building up. That's a that's a failing. Right. But God not being able to lie, God not being able to sin is the exact opposite.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, as I mentioned a few moments ago about other attributes are overlapping in that question. The attributes that God is holy, God's power is not going to contradict God's holiness. Holiness being that hubcap, that that center of God's God's not hubcap, it's not a good, it's it's like like the the epicenter, I don't know. Epicenter, epicenter is a better way to say that. Of God's attributes. So for me to say, is he not strong enough to lie? That doesn't, you're talking about two different things. Foolish, yeah. So when people ask those kind of questions, I'm like, oh, you really stumped me.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Well, I think that's what it's you are a silly person. I think that is what it's for. It's for it's to stump like naive college people. Oh, yeah. Because that's definitely the first place that I heard that was, you know, in the fresh philosophy class. Yeah, of course. So bringing it back to us, I think a lot of Christians, Dr. Shah, don't have a problem with the idea that God is all-powerful. And yet, day to day, it's not something that we think about. It's not something that we actually even rest in, yeah, or even believe sometimes. Yeah. And it affects the way that we handle trials in our life.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

Yeah. If you have a short sight of view or even a lack of uh understanding of God's omnipotence, it's gonna affect the way that you approach trials. It's gonna affect the way that you look at other people. Yeah, it's gonna affect the way you think about your own life and and God's calling and his direction and his protection on your life.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah. And so what I want to do in the next few minutes we have is just unpack what true omnipotence is all about. What does it truly mean that God is all powerful? And one of the greatest declarations of God regarding his power is found in Jeremiah chapter 32. And I want us to read that. I just want us to walk through it. Jeremiah 32 and verse 26 says, Then the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah saying, Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for me? Is there anything too hard? So what is going on here? The context is going to help us. In chapter 32 and 33, we we are sort of kind of looking at the second part of the great song of hope that Jeremiah sang when he was shut in in the court of the guard at the order of King Zedekiah. So he is in this predicament, he is in this prison, and he is singing this song of hope because in the eyes of the king, he was uttering treason. And in that way, he was advocating surrender to the king of Babylon. What Jeremiah was saying is you need to give up, you need to surrender to the king of Babylon. And Nebuchadnezzar and his army were right outside the walls of Jerusalem. The city had been under siege for a considerably long time and was very close to starvation and surrender. In the midst of the situation, Jeremiah sang his great song of hope. So I want I want you, Ryan, if you would read Jeremiah chapter 32, verses 1 through 5. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord in the tenth year of Zedekiah, king of Judah, which was the eighteenth year of Nebuchadnezzar. For then the king of Babylon's army besieged Jerusalem, and Jeremiah the prophet was shut up in the court of the prison, which was in the king of Judah's house. For Zedekiah, king of Judah had shut him up, saying, Why do you prophesy and say, Thus says the Lord, behold, I will give this city into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall take it. And Zedekiah King of Judah shall not escape from the hand of the Chaldeans, but shall surely be delivered into the hand of the king of Babylon, and shall speak with him face to face, and see him eye to eye. Then he shall lead Zedekiah to Babylon, and there he shall be until I visit him, says the Lord. Though you fight with the Chaldeans, you shall not succeed.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Well, wait a minute. Though you fight with the Chaldeans, you will not succeed. I thought God is the great, powerful God. Is there anything too difficult for him? Yeah, this isn't sounding a whole lot like a song of hope. Yeah, it's not a song of hope, it's a song of defeat. It is resembling a God who is weak and powerless in the face of a human monarch. Come on. How is that power possible? You see, that's the same thing that happens when we see God not acting in certain situations. Is this leading into the Babylonian exile? Oh, yes, that's coming. Okay. That's coming. I mean, you're right there. It's about to, everything is gonna go now.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

So this this surrender is part of God's plan for the Jewish people.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yes. But but isn't it tempting to say, wait a minute, my God is powerful. If we all declare together that God is powerful, God will stop the Babylonians. Jeremiah over there is saying, they're like, no, he's not. Yeah, he's not, he's not gonna stop the stopping anything, guys. In fact, you might as well just surrender.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Might as well surrender. Now imagine someone saying that in your church. Like you would act just like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

You have no faith.

unknown 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

You are a faithless. In fact, I don't even know if you're going to heaven.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

That's between you and God, and I would advise that you just take some time to really think on that. Get saved.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

What is Jeremiah saying here? What is he what is he pointing to?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

He's saying, don't think for a single moment that God is not powerful. He's very powerful. But in this situation, because of your sin, you're going to be dragged away by the Babylonians. If you don't want to die anymore of starvation, open the gates, let Nebuchadnezzar come in because time's up. So there are situations where God says, No, I'm not going to answer. And for you to somehow say God is all-powerful, he's going to No, He's not. I don't know. Today's doctrine is a little different. I'm not going to sit here and quote all the passages in the Bible that talk about the all-powerful God because we can do that all day. I want to talk about situations where God is powerful and yet we don't see him intervening. That's what I want to focus on.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

I think that's where a lot of people are when they're listening and when they're thinking about, you know, my loved one is sick, or I really need this promotion and it's not coming through, or I'm worried we're going to lose the house. God is all powerful. Why am I not seeing him act?

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah. Maybe you could talk about that, Dr. Shaw, like why God sometimes chooses to tear something down before he builds it up. Because I think a lot of times we see that and we say, well, he either my problem's too small for him, or he just don't want to. Maybe he wants to teach me something that I just I just gotta go through this.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Or God is not powerful enough.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Or he's just not enough.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Some some some will say that too. Yeah. See, you know, sometimes God wants us to obey him. It's not about God's power or God's ability or capability, it's about our obedience and faith to say, God, our people have sinned. You're taking us down this path because there's something you're going to do. In the process, people will die. It's not a good situation, it's horrible, but you warned us again and again by sending prophet after prophet after prophet, and our people have rejected you. We even killed the prophets. So, God, you have brought the king of Babylon on our doorstep, and he is there. There on the other side of the gate. And this is not about how powerful you are. I mean, come on, these people, the people of Israel, all these centuries were were were disobeying God. These kings were living for self, worshiping pagan idols. And now all of a sudden they're like, you know what? Our God is an awesome God he ring. Oh no. Oh no. Throwing away that. They brought it out. Yeah, they did. They brought the old old uh praise and worship song. That's right. And and then Jeremiah's over there is like, yeah, nope.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Yeah, y'all, y'all going through this. This is happening.

SPEAKER_04 23:21

Imagine God's God's man, God's prophet saying that to you.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Yeah. Wow. I'd be angry with him too, because I know it's probably true. Yeah, yeah. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Yeah. So what is God wanting them to do? You see, it's a remarkable act of faith, for this was the worst possible time to be buying property in Judah. Jeremiah was under immediate threat. Jerusalem was under immediate threat of capture by the Babylonian army, and the entire land would be subjected to who knew how many years of desolation and darkness and despair. This is coming. In the midst of this. Though Jeremiah was shut up in the court of the guard, God told him his cousin would come to meet him. And when he came and offered the field, Jeremiah was to buy it. So again knowing what's about to happen. Yeah, and Jeremiah's like, okay, now you don't want me to go along with God is all powerful thing right now. Got it. You you want me to tell them that Nebuchadnezzar is on the other side. Got it. And you want me to buy field here. Do you know how this looks?

SPEAKER_04 24:36

Just on paper, just so we're clear.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I'm not looking great here. So somebody read Jeremiah 32, verses 6 through 8. I got it.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Jeremiah said, The word of the Lord came to me saying, Behold, Hanamel, the son of Shalom, your uncle, will come to you, saying, Buy my field, which is in Anatoth, for the right of redemption is yours to buy it. Then Hanamel, my uncle's son, came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the Lord, and said to me, Please buy my field that is in Anatoth, for the c for which is in the country of Benjamin, for the right of inheritance is yours, and the redemption yours. Buy it for yourself. Then I knew that this was the word of the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

So he goes ahead and does it. Now, also need to understand here, God understands our trials, he understands our tears, because in verse 16 we read, this is Jeremiah 32, if you're following along. In verse 16, it says, Now when I had delivered the purchase deed to Baruch, the son of Nariah, I prayed to the Lord, saying, Ah, Lord God, behold, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. There's nothing too hard for you. Verse 24. Look, the siege mounds, they have come to the city to take it, and the city has been given into the hand of the Chaldeans who fight against it because of the sword and famine and pestilence. What you have spoken has happened there, you see it. And you have said to me, O Lord God, buy the field for money and take witnesses. Yet the city has been given into the hands of hand of the Chaldeans. Verse 26. Then the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, saying, Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for me? Means even though these King Zedekiah and his band of merry men are invoking my power and my omnipotence, they don't know that I'm not with them. This place is going to fall to the Babylonians because this is my judgment for centuries of sin. But I want you to buy that land. I want you to prophesy and tell them that this is gonna fall, but I want you to buy the land. And Jeremiah's like, Lord, I'm gonna obey you. So there are there are places where we can we can definitely obey God as in man, God gave me a vision to plant this business here or this ministry there, or talk to that person. I'm not against that. Maybe God did kill you, but in the word, in the Bible, you find God's clear commands obey there. Now our time is short. I want to read Jeremiah 32, verses 42 to 44, because God is going to resolve Jeremiah's dilemma. So, Ryan, can you read that for us? Sure.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

For thus says the Lord, just as I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them, and fields will be bought in this land of which you say it is desolate, without man or beast. It has been given into the hand of the Chaldeans. Men will buy fields for money, sign deeds, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, in the places around Jerusalem, in the cities of Judah, and the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the lowland, and in the cities of the south, for I will cause their captives to return, says the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

I will cause their captives to return. That is the evidence of the omnipotence of God. Not that He will drive Nebuchadnezzar away. No, it is when you obey God by that field when everything seems like so dismal because God's word is telling you, God says, here's what's going to happen. Some generations will pass, but I will bring you back in the land. I will bring you back into the promised land.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

So beautiful. And such a reminder for us that God is a God who is powerful and a God who keeps his promises.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

That's right. That's right. We want you to know that those promises apply to you. These are not promises that were given to characters in a fictional story. These are promises that were given to people just like you who lived in a real time just like you. And these promises apply to you as well. God is faithful and he's powerful enough to complete those plans that he has for your life.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

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SPEAKER_02 29:20

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SPEAKER_04 29:42

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